UKH

Looking for any opinions on these routes - considering going sometime with my now 18 year old son, who has been getting a bit into hiking and climbing in the last year. He wants to 'do' Scafell Pike but I'm congenitally disinclined to just walk up hills when climbs or scrambles are possible. We did the Snowdon Horseshoe (Winter) (I) in February, then got within a few hundred horizontal metres of the top of Ben Nevis (having climbed Number Three Gully (I) in April - we decided to descend in really quite wild conditions whilst things were still in control. Doing a route on Pikes Crag seems the best option for climbing on Scafell Pike, but I've only climbed on Scafell, not on SP. Grooved Arete (HVD) seems the pick of the bunch by stars and number of ascents in the logbooks, but Wall and Crack Climb (VD) also gets 3 stars but has had only a third of the number of logged ascents. Child 2 would be fine following either I'm sure. He did a 6a seconding the other night. I'd be happy leading either too, but I'm just interested in anyone who has climbed there, because I don't think anyone who I've climbed over the years has ever climbed there in summer (Phil, if you see this, I know you've done winter climbs there!).

I climbed Wall and Crack, about 20 years ago, with my sons (aged 19 and 15) Big ledges and short pitches. We had great fun. The trickiest bit is getting off the top and into the gully. Either an abseil or "Diff" down climb.

Grooved Arete is also a great climb, but not as novice friendly. Longer pitches with more awkward climbing and belays.

I thoroughly enjoyed grooved arete, and thought the location looking down wast water, stunning, and to finish with a summit was the icing on the cake. Iirc I thought it better than bowfell buttress.

Or you could park at the foot of the hard knott pass, and scramble up thors buttress and pen, summit, drop to mickledore, climbers traverse under the east buttress, Sca fell, sight side an back to  car. A long day and I recall thors being a bit pokey, so a rope a good plan. I took my daughter on this and she does not climb.

They're both nice routes, Grooved Arête definitely a bit harder than Wall and Crack as the crux is slightly awkward. Wall and Crack has nice big belay ledges.

I did grooved arete with my brother and Dad and it was a great family day out which i highly recommend.

I can't say if its the right level for your party, to make it an enjoyable day you'd want at least basic climbing experience. if they're happy seconding single pitch trad at the grade I don't see why not.

its probably abit easier and less exposed than Grooved Arete on Tryfan but similar in character. I dont remember any traverses. Theres a 20m-ish abseil from the top on tat. 

I did Grooved Arete in the rain and mist and can confirm that in such conditions: a) it's really hard to find the start and b) the rock is incredibly slippery, probably due to lichen. If it had been dry and clear, I'm sure it would have been great. Take plenty of suncream as you're in the sun nost of the day!

The whole crag has a kind of "climb anywhere" feel, and I did another easyish line one autumn on the righthand side, basically scoping it out as we went... probably a new ascent, or a bit of various routes... Do check you're starting from the right place!

I’ve climbed there years ago. Very undistinguished, quite easy angled routes on good rock in a fine setting. Nothing compared with Scafell Crag. Never felt any desire to return.

I enjoyed climbing Grooved Arete last summer, I've not done anything else on the crag. If you've plenty of time, you could descend via Mikledore, then take in one of the routes and Scafell summit too!

My memory has obviously got Pike’s Crag completely wrong (it was 32 years ago) - I’ve just looked it up in my logbook, and see we did a combination of Juniper Buttress and Crack and Wall Route. ‘Pike’s Crag quite superb. Immaculate rock, very fine setting.’ Just shows how wrong one’s memory can be. Another occasion when I think: thank god for the logbook!

Pleasant but unremarkable is my memory of Pikes Crag. But obviously more interesting than just walking up Scafell Pike

Scafell Crag is so excellent that there is no point really in climbing on Pike’s Crag. Pike’s crag has the advantage of being in the sun, but Scafell gets the sun too in the (latish?) afternoon in the summer.

Have you actually read the OP, there is ample point as it makes a superb way to summit Scafell Pike, and Grooved Arete is an excellent route, in and of itself.

But if you want to top out on Scafell Pike, it's a bit of a faff to get to from Scafell Crag, especially with kids, as per the OP

it dries much faster than scafell

I did Grooved Arête many years ago but from what I recall I think he’d really enjoy the adventure. It is a series of steps and never feels too ‘out there’. (VD in the 96 guide).

Sorry to go all old-man-tangent on you but it was part of a superb day. I went to the summit of Scafell via Botteril’s Slab, back down for my kit, up Grooved Arête to the summit of Scafell Pike. Then back to the car via Broad Crag, Ill Crag, Great End, the Gables and Base Brown. All under a sky-splitting sun. 

Sounds ace. I did Botterill's Slab with Child 2's mum back before he, or even Child 1, was even a glint in the eye! So that feels equally old-man tangential. :⁠-⁠) 

Thanks everyone for all the info. Sounds kind of perfect.

We're not going tomorrow as I've miraculously persuaded the whole family to go hiking - but Child 2 seems actually quite keen for Pikes Crag /Scafell Pike - which is nice and suggests he is emerging from standard grumpy teenage years and willing to spend time with me! 😀 So the next weekend the weather looks good.

One last thought - it sounds like both routes would be fine with a skinny single, as a number of folk have suggested they are pretty straight up, and the ab off the top isn't that long. Can anyone think of why only lugging one rope up would be a silly idea?

Yes, Scafell Crag to S Pike is quite a faff (Broadstand is OK in descent, just) and other routes  (apart from a long way round) too serious for kids, really.

You’ll be fine on Pikes Crag with a single 9mm. IIRC all the lines are more or less straight up and down.

Agreed.

I've not done those Pikes Crag routes (have done others less classic). They do look great, esp GA, and the novelty of topping out on a rock 'peak' is pretty rare for the UK.

Just to throw in a curve ball, you might also consider a scramble over on the other side of the range on the SE Face of Ill Crag. One of the Lakes' best, longest and most remote scrambles (rope advised in the circs). The rock over there is some of the most amazingly velcro I've ever seen, as good as the best bits of gabbro on Rum or Skye.

See here:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/features/interview_stephen_goodwins_...

Interestingly I printed out and laminated a description of Ill Crag's SE Face last autumn, but because I'm pretty unfamiliar with scrambling grades I decided doing it on my own probably wasn't a great idea so I did the easier Cockley Pike Ridge next to it instead. It was was a big circuit that day but saves time and petrol on driving round to Wasdale. In from Cockley Bridge, Scafell Pike and Scafell via West Wall Traverse and down to Eskdale and back over into Moasdale. 

It took me 30 years from first seeing the SE face of Ill Crag in the scrambling guide , thinking it was a must do route, to getting round to doing it.

It was a real disappointment.

Grooved arete and other routes on Pikes Crag are well worthwhile, imho.

If you want long and remote feeling, get on Piers Ghyll and the dark side of Lingmell.

Apparently Pilgrims Progress is by some metrics on of the longest routes in England, and I did it with a dear departed friend. A certain synchronicity to think of it now, as I am currently walking the Camino Santiago.

Really? I thought it was the best scrambling I've done in the Lakes, scale and quality well above most routes. Yes it lacks a line 

I like a line, I also find lines of least resistance to make the best routes, scrambling or rock climbing.

But if you started early and finished late you will have missed the opportunity to enjoy the drive over Hard Knott without any slowcoaches around; doing it competently at a reasonable speed is a pleasure. 

I have gone round to Wasdale, a couple of years ago, to do we reckoned the last winter climb in condition south of Scotland. But Google took me along the south coast, towards Barrow from memory - not over Hard Knott.

I only meant nip over and start/finish your walk from lower Eskdale rather than up Mosedale 😁, round to Wasdale Head's another half hour each way.

More seriously though, I only go over Wrynose and Hardknott if it's early enough to be before traffic; I get rather frustrated being significantly held up by those who creep along because they have no confidence on those roads.

That's not really the problem because of course they'll never get that confidence if they avoid these roads. It's more that they're ignorant of what should be a standard convention to pull over and let faster traffic go past on routes like this.

Any later and I'd go around, up past Ulpha and over Birker pass to Eskdale. As a bonus on that route you get a great view into upper Eskdale where your walk went.

Years of commuting to sites in West Cumbria and climbing trips to Wasdale have shown me that the quickest way is over Corney Fell in summer and Whicham Valley if below freezing.

Getting dragged along by the Sellafield Shuttle over Corney is not for the faint of heart and definitely to be avoided to try to drive against the flow. 

Conversly, trying to get from Egremont Southwards early morning weekdays is tail to tail for a couple of hours, I presume, I only do it the other way.

I did a short write up of a day climbing Grooved Arete on Pikes crag - https://www.climb-scafell.co.uk/climbing-on-scafell/