UKH

Is that ancient NMC one (with Endless Flight on the cover) the most up to date comprehensive for Northumberland?

In reply to redjerry:

The northern rock wired is pretty good but yes, I think the nmc one is the only definitive book.

There are loads of pdfs available on the locals' Facebook groups though 

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

ok. thx.
Is this a general trend in the UK? No more (or far fewer at least) definitive guides?

In reply to redjerry:

I think of that as the new one!

In reply to redjerry:

In a word, Yes. Certainly in Scotland. The number of routes has grown so much in the last 20 years that either guidebooks would have to be enormous, or there'd have to be far more of them. 

In reply to Michael Gordon:

The UK has such a great tradition of definitive guidebooks. Sad to see that disappear. 
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In reply to redjerry:

I totally agree. Personally I'd just have more guidebooks covering smaller areas, but perhaps this isn't economically viable. And of course it's more work for volunteers. 

In reply to redjerry:

The problem with definitive guides is they can fill up with a lot of garbage. Do people really want to pay for guides with a bunch of routes nobody ever does? I think the SMC approach is sensible*, selective but not that selective guides with the definitive info made available online.

* I'll declare a vested interest here...

In reply to DaveHK:

It probably depends exactly where you draw that line. Almost comprehensive but cutting out the crap I can't imagine many would have an objection to. It's when some half decent stuff is dropped out that it seems a shame.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

This is pretty much what I've done with Scottish Winter Climbs North but it isn't always straightforward depending on the size of the area and specific venues.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I've seen how that played in JTree where there has only been a selective for 20 or so years) and its way worse than the odd decent route not making the cut.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Lowland outcrops got split up into new lowland outcrops, the pdf of esoterica and galloway (new guidebook). Galloway is great by the way.

One of my routes(a bit of an eliminate) made the cut.

In reply to Mike-W-99:

That's good to hear. Hopefully a similarly thorough approach is taken in other (future) Scottish guidebooks. 

In reply to Mike-W-99:

Ooh, haven't seen the new Galloway issue since the Lowland Outcrops excluded that area - when did that come out? 

In reply to oscaig:

It’s still in production. The usual suspects have been doing loads of new routing so it should be good.

In reply to redjerry:

Totally agree with what has happened in JT: it's a bit of a disaster... lots of selective guides competing for an overlapping set of the most popular selection of routes and loads of really good newer stuff missing and older stuff left with very limited information just in the old out-of-print grey Vogel guide. Vogel's book, Joshua Tree West, shows what could have been for all the park (and if just the area that volume covers was transplanted to the Peak District with all the bouldering potential goodness knows how many guidebooks of good quality lines it would fill)

In reply to Mike-W-99:

Thanks Mike - sounds good and will keep my eye out for it  

In reply to DaveHK:

I love nothing more than going to a crag, ticking off a load of 'no star' routes and finding out at they're great. It happens all the time. Even shit routes are worth climbing lol.

In reply to Offwidth:

Yes the guidebook situation there is really pretty lame.
I think long term, having selecteds as the main source of info has some serious downside.
If I was a younger man I'd take on a definitive myself.
When Vogel retired he thought about finishing the series he'd started with JTree West, but (probably sensibly given how big a project it would be) decided not to commit. I bet he collected loads of material though.

In reply to redjerry:

Sadly I never met him although we knew quite a few climbers around the scene at Crossroads. We had maybe a dozen trips at Xmas time combined with Red Rocks... both trad heaven.... both often best away from the crowds.