UKH

When there is literally nothing else to use, no trees, big rocks, cracks etc....

Any advice on this in general?

I was thinking: 

This? 

https://fatmoose.co.uk/solidroot-angle-anchor?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCA...

or this?  

https://shop.leachs.com/products/bigben-hurricane-scaffold-ground-anchor-65...

Many thanks guys! 

If you happen to have won the lottery recently...?

https://www.abaris.co.uk/DMM-Talon-Ground-Anchor

The former looks better than the later. But I'd use snow stakes(angle iron) as the optimum, the V points towards the edge, so they spread load outwards more. Next best are round rods driven in, deep 50-60cm or more. Larks foot at least 2 at their base, equalised etc...

Scaffolding poles cut off are good too. 

I wonder how many of these they sell?

How is that so expensive?

Also, 

What lifetime would you give these stakes, the place I want to place new ones already has some in but there 5 years old and looking quite rusted 

For taking various climbing shots in my Peak book in the 90s I made some out of angle-iron (actually I think it was some strong alloy) - about 18 inches long and cut to a spike at the end. Driven in by a heavy mallet. Worked fine. I always took them out when I’d finished to reuse elsewhere. I’ve probably still got them right in the depths of my understairs cupboard.

The MRT I'm in has one is every front line vehicle, they're great but never realised they cost so much!

Too much of a weight and time penalty carrying the cement and waiting for it to set!

Look up 'hedgehog' ground anchors. These are widely used by mountain rescue teams and some climbing instructors. I have used them to great effect at the top of sea cliffs in the Hebrides where all you have is machair at the top of routes. They are relatively easy to make yourself from thick alumnium angle and are very affordable. They have the added bonus of being portable and easy to remove, so you can use them on different climbs.

Yep - built a rope bridge at Cubs recently. Each end had a picket anchor made of 3x scaffold poles:

https://www.firstduetackle.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2014/08/picket-2...

It's amazing how soft the ground can be and they'll still hold. With a view towards rescues in unconventional places we tested similar set ups in near marsh like ground (with bomb proof rock back up) and they creep and bed in, but still hold. Even a dead man hammered in is good, or buried horizontal axe, same principles in a different medium. 

Note. That I'm suggesting anyone should cut corners for the sake of it in a normal climbing situation. Big stakes, in deep, every time! 

Scaffold potlugs are the favoured option at Swanage, about 16£ each. I've used tractor front loader tines in rocky ground, around 20£.

For corrosion resistant go to a boatyard and get some discarded propellor shafts, scrap price roughly a fiver depending on weight. Or buy a length of 30mm stainless bar, about £36 a metre.

To be honest, trying to rig and extend an anchor for top roping in this way might well be more trouble than its worth unless you have a very specific project in mind.

Never heard of these but they look clever! Bit of angle and some re-bar and you're away. 

https://riggingforrescue.com/highline-north-iceland/

Are you looking to add some additional stakes to an existing crag? or are you trying to use a removable ground anchor? Where you are really impacts the most suitable material and installation method.

Surface rust isn't a big deal, how long they last depends where they are and the metal thickness but stakes can easily last 20+ years. The most corroded section is always at ground level where you have the worst combination of water and oxygen so it's usually quite easy to tell the condition of a stake visually + bounce testing it with body weight.

For climbing anchor  stakes, scaffold tube offcuts are cheap, long lasting and are easily persuaded to go in with a big enough hammer, 6 lb head minimum ideally. Locally, they even go into slate quarry waste , little soil involved.

Not been mentioned yet, a counterpoise body weight, basically leader sits in a hole back from the crag edge.  This even works without a hole on a flat cliff top, the friction on the edge helping somewhat. On a 10 m crag ,the wise leader sits 12m back

Also used the counterpoise technique to abseil in and check out a new crag. Filled a dumpy bag ,SWL 1 T, with rocks.  Bag worked well, the crag was a disappointment.

I was involved in some of the original testing with these about 10 years ago. We did some testing more recently as part of a more comprehensive ground anchor study for MR. In a slow pull with a load cell in moderate ground... 3/5 subjective assessment @ the top of yarncliffe and they were pulling out at 5kN which is pretty good and on paper is more than enough for top rope and abseil... Just depends on your risk appetite for something you have stamped into the ground with your foot. DMM reccomend for back rope use not as a principal fall arrest anchor. 

IRATA code of practice on ground anchors has something in there about ground anchors which IIRC has expected failure (20 degree angled 1m stake in 30mm rolled steel... Or something like that) typically pulling to vertical at around 3kN. Strongest are angle as they produce a bigger cone of densification of the ground in front.

If there's enough of you then go anchor free, lay rope out on ground in a straight line and everyone stands on it. The combination of friction / mass is sufficient, I can't recall how many we needed though, but it was more than 1 or 2! (Don't try this at home kids).

Kirk Maunther used to do a lot of their development of techniques, testing systems, equipment etc...impressive guy, apart from being a great mountaineer (guide), he has a mind just so well focused on physics and engineering etc and applying it to the mountains and rescue techniques. 

I remember leading Wicked Gravity at Pembroke, no belay, sat down, one heel in a slight depression, job done. Fortunately my second was ultra competent. Happy days.

Have you seen what their new Corax axe is going to be going for this winter? You're basically getting five of them - seems like a bargain.

How about getting one of these?

https://treesdirect.co.uk/product/oak-tree/

100% environmentally friendly just have to wait a little while...

Cost of development and certification divided by very limited sales volume plus at least two slices of profit and some tax.

jk

As long as the ground condition is suitable, I've used 3 no. 500mm lengths of 12mm diam. threaded rod from B&Q, battered into the ground, slightly angled away from the direction of pull, short sling wound round each rod, then equalised to a master point screw-gate.

Edit: so, basically what ExiledScot says in their first post!

Scaffold tubes are OK, but the problem is their diameter makes them not work very well in the rocky ground found at the top of cliffs.  T - section 'angle' about 1.5" / 40mm across with a pointed end is far better in that respect as it will either break the rock or go down the side of it depending on the situation.

Good stake info on Jim Titt's site here:-

http://www.bolt-products.com/Glue-inBoltDesign.htm

For any sort of decent stakes you'll need a sledge hammer to put them in. Picketing them (tying the top of the front one to another behind it) makes a huge difference in holding power. We find old galvanised German stakes on our sea cliffs from WW2 and they're often still in reasonable condition if just lying around.

There's no certification for ground anchors.

Biggest component to cost is no doubt the tiny market