UKH

Perusing AliExpress I see harnesses, crabs, slings, rope etc..., some with UIAA in the description, and some without.

Is any of it worth using, is the UIAA marking on some unknown brand from where-the-hell in China worth the pixels it's written in?

I know that the answer to this is to walk into Needlesports, but there's four of us, and apparently we all need new harness, new ropes, and new everything - after my partner's and I's stuff has mostly sat in the loft for a decade - and to replace everything isn't going to get us any change out of £1500....

Views and opinions?

Cheers.

Maybe read this recent thread:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/the_truth_about_temu_-_tonight-77143...

Definitely, definitely not. Can't remember where but there was an investigation into the gear on there with UIAA marks which found that they were being just stuck on kit that hadn't been tested at all, and the UIAA had no records of. Think there might have even been a UKC post about it.

For safety kit I'd always use branded stuff you recognise, the cheapo biners and stuff might cost less, but a grand and a bit for proper kit is cheaper than the medical bills when it goes wrong

If you are buying that much stuff in one go some of the independents might do you a deal for a discount.

I would rather spend my time soloing than leading on gear I don't feel confidence in the safety/ quality of. Most of the arguments about why I wouldn't touch AliExpress with a barge pole are on the thread linked earlier in this one.

Next time I'm run out above my gear, I'd rather be on my trusted branded kit after 10 years in the loft rather than something I've bought from AliExpress. No hesitation.

I'd second this. A decent chunk of my rack is 20 years old, some of my ropes are getting on for 15 years old.  It's all been stored clean and dry, out of sunlight and I'm entirely happy using them.  Anything I have doubts about (slings etc.) has been replaced, but that hasn't been massive expense. 

Who said you need to replace your kit?  Is there any obvious damage?

Nope, no damage.

Some of it is old (25+), and well used, but not damaged, and some - including the harnesses - is a decade+, used a couple of times while we pretended to ourselves that having kids wouldn't effect our climbing/camping/having money and happiness, and then put away in the loft.

We turned up to a local wall and the staff did lots of chin-stroking and sucking of teeth when we whipped out our harnesses - they were talking about binning stuff at 5 years, and the manufacturers, and some of the threads on here are talking about 10 years.

It's for climbing down the wall - the kids are well into it - and getting outside onto some proper rock.

You've had some sensible answers already. No way should you ever buy safety-critical gear from a dubious source. 

These articles might be worth a read. It's eye opening and scary what can get away with being sold in the UK:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2024/05/channel_4_dispatches_episode_invest...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/online_budget_gear_-_the_peril...

As for re-using old stuff, that's a greyer area. Subject to close inspection, metalware should usually be good after 10 years storage. Soft goods, I'd also visually and manually inspect every inch of.  And then think hard if any of it has potentially been exposed to UV, chemicals, oil etc. If all that is definitely fine then I'm sure many folk would use an old rope or sling - I might well do too. But that's a call you have to make yourself, at your own (and your partners') risk, and if in any doubt the only sensible answer is to chuck it out.  

And just to re-iterate: if it has passed its manufacturer's shelf life then officially the thing to do is bin it. I'm definitely not saying it's ok to use

While I was typing the above I see you wrote 25+ years. There's old and then there's old. I'd be drawing the line well before that.

What gear are you planning to replace? Four harnesses, two 50m single ropes, and two belay devices  w/ screwgate karabiners is not going to cost anything like £1500.

Given some of the examples on this Instagram page (breakable rebar, measuring tapes of assorted 'sizes' etc.), I'd be somewhat wary:

https://www.instagram.com/chinafakeseverything/

Wouldn't touch it myself!

IMO your hardwear will be fine, unless it's got any signs of corrosion. Gates may benefit from a bit of appropriate lube.

Just replace the software you need at the moment - harnesses, ropes and maybe a couple of slings - from a reputable brand either direct or via a reputable dealer.

In a nutshell, no. Marketplace retailers (AliExpress, Temu , Amazon etc….) have form for having items on their websites that do not have UIAA/CE marks or have the marks but are counterfeit. Due to their marketplace status, it is notoriously difficult to police and delisted vendors re-list under a new name the next day so it is safest to steer clear. As always, please use reputable stores and you will get genuine products. If money is tight, most brands do a budget range of kit to get you going and Decathlon is always a good place to start!

Re old gear…… It’s complicated! Metal goods, if stored well and maintained, will last a LONG time. If a krab is corrosion free and the gate opens and snaps shut freely without sticking, then it’s probably fine, for example.

Soft goods are a little tricker as they do degrade quicker, under certain conditions. The key things that shorten soft goods lifespan is UV, abrasion or chemical damage. Without knowing the history of the items, nor being able to view them and the mention of 25 years (!) I will err on the side of caution and say you should replace them.

Should you want to check if the UIAA Safety Label is genuine, then the UIAA website has all the vendors listed and a link to the certificates. If the vendor/manufacturer is NOT on the UIAA website, it is NOT a genuine UIAA Safety Label and there is no guarantee that the item has been tested to the appropriate UIAA Standard.

Should the item not have a CE mark (followed by a four digit number that identifies the notified body who did the testing for that mark) then that item is illegal to sell on the UK market (assuming that item is classed as PPE, which most climbing equipment is).

Nick Galpin

BMC Technical Committee, UK Rep on CEN TC 136/WG5 and the UIAA Safety Commission

This is also relevant.  While I'm getting too old/cautious to take any real risks with gear, there's a big difference between the loads you're going to see top roping or even leading at the wall vs taking whippers on run out trad routes.

Forget about the designer brand stuff and go to decathlon. Cheap and properly certified.

… and there’s good reason for that.

Normally the saying is “buy cheap by twice” but for rock climbing gear it’s “buy once …. bye bye” when it comes to ethics free, barely regulated online marketplaces.  Same as cheap electricals.

Another vote for Decathlon. For a third of the price you mention you'll get four new harnesses, new ropes, a full set of quickdraws, and some change for slings and krabs. For nuts and friends you'll have to go to Needlesports, though. Either way, don't buy the knockoff stuff from China.

I would have no problem using 25 year old well used gear, especially for top-roping. I wouldn't touch AliExpress gear with a bargepole. There is a whole world of difference between a properly manufactured piece of equipment that might have deteriorated a bit but even at 25% of it's original strength would still be adequate, and an item of dubious manufacture that could fail the first time it's loaded due to a defect.

I don't understand what the problem is. Between 4 of you it will cost £1500 to get the new gear you need. In exchange for that, you get access to the best & safest climbing gear on the planet and you contribute to a local independent shop. Your alternative is to buy cheap, questionable shit from China? When that stuff fails and one of you is in a wheel chair for the rest of their lives, you might reconsider the wisdom of saving a few quid.

Any metal work thats sat in a loft for 10 years is going to be fine.  You'll have two schools of thought on soft gear, too, but krabs and belay devices will be fine.

Best do an inventory of what you actually NEED to replace.

A lot of uncertified kit is marked with "CE" numbers as not having it makes it illegal to sell in UK.

However in the cheap Chinese  kit it can stand for "China Export" and it was merely your *assumption* that it meant a safety test!

One thing I don't think mentioned much in this or similar threads is that as well as the potential lack of safety, when people buy rip off DMM, and like kit, they are ripping off the manufacturers who actually develop and innovate, making it harder for them to innovate new kit in future for us

Decathlon is the place to go.

I think the "China Export" excuse is a myth. The simple truth is that CE marking is a joke. It's all self-certified. They stick a CE mark on it and there is no enforcement. It's not just climbing gear. Amazon and even some reputable -looking websites are awash with CE-marked electrical items that don't conform to regulations and are often dangerous to use.

Yes CE is weak and that's bad, but the issue is that if I manufacture and sell a product in the UK that is dangerous and non compliant with CE standards yet stamp CE on it, that'll catch up with me at some point.

However if I was a Chinese manufacturer or retailer via Temu and did exactly the same there'd be zero consequences for me 

Presumably, though, the Chinese government isn't keen on its own citizens suffering as a result of poor production standards? One would imagine as the country becomes ever more developed the stereotype of shoddiness might diminish

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: ‘Do I feel lucky?’ Well, do ya, punk?

And furthermore, is the lasting memory you want your kids to have of you is as a puddle of mush at the bottom of some crag. And that they will then find out that they were fatherless because you were being a tight arse.

The thing is, it might be fine. But it might not be, and I'm betting seeing as you're here asking the question, you wouldn't really know how to even start to look at it. 

In all honesty I would rather trust your 25+ year old branded stuff than the Aliexpress stuff... and personally I wouldn't really trust that either...

Inspect the heck out of everything. Buy a new rope from decathlon, use the rest (assuming  inspection  passed) [/thread]