UKH

Hey everyone. I ofcourse expect there to be varying degrees of helpful comments while also comments of caution and stupidity. Regardless, its a goal i have set and a goal i intend to actualise. I would like to undertake the Haute route from Zermatt to Chamonix, solo and without using huts, around April 2025. I have a splitboard and all accompanying equipment required for moving through snow and the high alpine. I'm familiar with snow camping/bivouacing in the high alpine as i spent 14 days at 2800m in Verbier from December 21st until Januray 4th, living in a snowcave i built, again solo. 

The Haute route expedition would be very different as i'd be moving every day which also means i'm carrying whatever i'm taking, i'm going to encounter and have to cross glaciers and navigate. The one thing im most concerned about and have been doing my fair bit of research on is glacial crossings. I am an individual with a relatively high risk threshold whilst also always trying to mitigate any unnecessary risks. I have people that care for me and want me to come back alive, while i also have alot more in life i want to do before dying cold and alone with a severed spinal column at the bottom of a cravasse. 

The way that i see it, glacial crossings are always risky, especially alone. After alot of careful consideration, i think that the best way forward would be slowly progressing while probing the snow ahead of me and setting a retreivable snow anchor utilising my ice axes as a t-anchor, like such (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVi7MYU_DSY&t=2s&ab_channel=ShortGu...). I've seen this acouple of times and i think it may be the best way forward for me as i can move forward on my path across the glacier while attached to my rope which is secured to the anchor. Once i reach the final meters of my rope and i confirm the snow below me is solid, i retrieve the ice axes and reset the anchor. While i proceed forward i would hold the rope so i can lock it off if i fall into a cravasse, where then i would use an already placed prusik to ascend the rope. Rinse and repeat until i'm off the glacier.

The main issues i see with this is if i fall into a cravasse and the anchor fails (apart from the obvious), my ice axes are following me down at velocity and if i for any reason become detached from the rope, my ice axes are in the snow above me. 

What are your thoughts, advice, insights?

(note: if all youre going to do is bash me im sure there are better uses for your time)

Are you referring to the "mountaineers" haute route, or the "skiers/walkers" haute route (both Chamonix-Zermatt)?

I did the former many (50+) years ago, and I would certainly not recommend doing it solo. Long days almost entirely on glaciers. 

But if it's the latter, please ignore that comment. I've no knowledge to contribute.

Martin

The big issues with splitting on tours like the Haute Route is traversing and efficiency. Nothing would get me off my splitboard, but the reality is, it’s not as efficient as skiing. Particularly over undulating and icy terrain, like you’ll encounter.

As for solo glacier crossing (and indeed generally being in the backcountry). It’s all down to your own skill and risk appetite. Might also be worth considering how you’d summon help if your anchor holds and you do end up dangling in a crevasse, particularly if seriously injured.

If you do decide to progress this plan, like you say, take a long avalanche probe and use that to test for any obvious voids. Clearly this depends on the depth of the snowpack and isn’t a 100% guarantee.

Stay safe wherever you end up doing!

Sounds tedious. How much of the HR do you think you'd do in that way? If it's 10s of metres a day it might work, if it's hundreds or thousands, forget it. 

So you acknowledge the unusual nature of your solo plan and the extreme risks inherent in it. What do you think people's thoughts are?!

Sounds like you'd need about a month using the method you describe - would you not be better to get fit, wait for it to be very well filled in and bash it out in one or two days, being careful around crevasses? Two is very achievable, particularly if you learn to ski - certain parts of the "normal" HR would be piss poor on a split board. 

Or just, you know, do it with a good friend and not have to worry about freezing to death in a crevasse quite so much?

There are several variations of the Haute Route, which one are you think of doing?

As others have said the whole plan seems bonkers (but then again so does living in snow caves). Traveling through a glacier building snow anchors every rope length sounds like a particularly painful way to spend your time.

If going solo is a must and you're comfortable with the much higher risk of solo travel in avalanche and glacier terrain, surely you'd decrease the risk by going fast, rather than spend days on end on glacier terrain, with the increased avalanche risk that would entail? Maybe save the anchor building plan for any short sections of high risk crevassed terrain. And, if building anchors, build ones that you trust won't blow (i.e. do it properly or not at all. Otherwise you're just burning time placing psychological protection?)

You could decrease crevasse risk by going when there is high snow cover (e.g. this season has been very good at covering crevasses), only moving over glaciers when it's cold (good night freeze, finishing mid morning etc) and talking to experienced people. It might be worth hiring a guide who knows the route very well for a day to talk through any bits you need to be particularly careful with crevasse-wise.

If you ever do this, do update us on how you get on.

Haute Troll

Not come back on for  quite a while so I guess you're right.

Odd thing to troll about, it's not exactly going to generate much comment other than that it sounds like a daft idea.

Daft Idea? It's insane!

Seriously, he's going to do the Haute Route and on all the glacier sections he'll self belay to a retrievable anchor system probing ahead as he goes. Let's assume he's got a 60m rope, that means doing it in 30m pitches, how long is that going to take?

If he sets off from Chamonix when the first snows of winter fall he might just get to Zermatt by the end of spring.

He says he has a high risk threshold, let's hope he has a high boredom threshold too. It's the skiing equivalent of this https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=monty+python+ascent+...

Jon Krakauer wrote a good article where he used a pair of long curtain rods under his armpits for solo glacier travel along with a large supply of weed to keep his sanity at bay. 

Really long rope?

I've ski toured all the Haute Route day sections (and some variations) save the Bertol to Zermatt section solo (sometimes without using the huts). 

Many others have also done this, indeed there's a near one day record solo push for the whole damn thing. 

In all cases I had ski toured the areas with partners before hand in previous seasons or beforehand in the same season especially when I've been concerned about conditions. Some of the sections I've skied 10- 20 or so times.

If you're solo, there's no way of fully mitigating crevasse or avalanche risk, especially when the weather turns to shit. Your anchor system isn't going to count for anything. If you're going to trust to anything whilst solo, then both an intimate knowledge of the terrain and the snow conditions are essential (I was religious in my study of them), but speed and light weight are your best friends. But you're never going to be able to completely mitigate the risk.

It is, of course, normal to ski the heavily crevassed sections unroped (so risk is ever present even skiing in a group), and rope up on the ascent, whilst there should be a good trail in April and plenty of folk about. The descents you can generally blast if conditions are good and you feel on top of things. 

That said, I have refused to do the Zermatt descent solo once given crevasse conditions and have turned back on others sections given crevasse risk and/or bad weather, even with partners.

As far as skiing into a crevasse (I've done this sadly), or being involved in crevasse rescue (I've also had to do this 3 times), it's a bloody nightmare. Rescue and self-rescue is hard to pull off ..

The other major constraints that you will face will be sac weight and the cold.

To save weight I skimped on kit, and as a result bivvying out was often brutally cold (-20C+, though mostly I did my days out in March). The skin ascents after an exhausting long night were brutal and will be worse on a splitboard. (My ski set up was much lighter.) I never did more than two nights out (and only twice) and that was my limit. That said, the limit was often reached after one night out and I headed home or to a hut! I often found it very difficult to keep my technique and judgement together when I was strung out, and this really raised the risks even in good conditions.

I gave up the bivvying (but not the solo day skiing) after these experiences..

For me, it doesn't make sense to risk it without the requisite base of knowledge, but even with this knowledge, undertaking he whole thing in one 7 day push doesn't really stack up. Risks aside, it will be an utter suffer fest. In truth, i didn't really enjoy any of these experiences, bar the day tours when i wasn't knackered. The fatigue generally affected my skiing ability (and I'm at a very high standard), and undermined the whole point of doing it..

If you're dead set on the solo experience, it's fairly straightforward to explore day or day/overnight sections from Chamonix , Verbier, or around the Dix hut, picking sections where many of the glacier ascents have lower crevasse risk.  You'll learn a lot doing it like that...

John C

Okay so ive been thinking that my post must have gotten lost in the plethora of posts on this amazing site as i didnt get any email notifications of replies, but ive just logged in and seen that quite afew people have replied so im going to start combing through and extracting what i can from everyones replies! Very eager to read everything, whatever it may be.

In the same vein as the Krakauer article and curtain poles: I once encountered a solo Korean climber on the argentiere glacier in snowy conditions with a tubular aluminium "cross" on the top of his pack, and on his shoulders.  It was clipped tightly to his harness. It stuck out a couple of feet on each direction and was meant to catch him if he fell into a hole. 

Not for me, but may work for you. You could then save your rope and anchor system for obvious tricky bits. Good luck

As i'm going to be doing it solo, i'd be looking at the skiers hauter route. Would much rather find a group of like minded individuals to complete the mountaineers route and mitigate the risks of attempting solo. Thanks for teh question, probably should have clarified.

Its a very valid concern regarding my anchor holding but still having incurred injury on a fall. I have a sat phone and a garmin watch, which in combination i believe will be enough to provide emergency services my exact co-ordinates.

Regarding the split board, thats a solid copy, however i have nit been given the gift of independent leg coordination past ski-touring so i'm going to have to let my splitboard crampons do the bulk of the work. I've found they are quite helpfull when traversing/side-hilling on icy sections. Other than that, i can only work with what i know so a split-board it is and i wont stop myself from doing the route due to my split being more inefficient than a pair of skis. Really appreciate your reply and you made very valid points.

It would be in particularly sketchy sections of glacial crossings. I have a dji drone im taking with me which i'll be employing to do some recon of the route im intending to do and finding the optimal route. Im thinking that due to my installation of nd filters on the lense of the drones camera, i can actially see depth changes across the surface of my intended route to kindof have a rough idea of where there may be cravasses. May turn out to be hundreds of meters at the worst case. 

Well, i can certainly see your thoughts on it are that its a bad idea, which i can accept as a valid point of view for your own risk tolerance. So far however, ive gotten a mix of both constructive questions and advice, along with questions of my mental integrity. 

I would be looking at doing it when the cravasses are very filled in and my level of fitness isnt an issue, regardless i have almost 9 months to keep training as im training and improving my fitness even further. Look at a reply i have further up for further info but, i'd be using the removable snow anchor in sketchy sections and i'd be using a drone for reconing my route to see for any slumps in the snow surface.

Im less concerned about the overall skiing experience as much as completing the route solo as an achievement for myself and spending some time alone in the backountry. I realise that the split will definitely make me hate my life at sections but suffering is the spice of life.

Maybe on eof my favorite comments. Aknowledgment that its binkers but continues on to provide challenging ideas and constructive advice. 

Agreed on the speed over exposure, i would be setting up the snow anchor in sketchy sections and trying to minimise my time on the glaciers in general. I feel like the anchor ive suggested is trustwthy enough, however i am intending on testing it earlier in the season when i get to some snow. If i was into the psychological protection aspect of things i wouldn't pack a rope and take a cross and viirgin may statuette instead.

Snow cover is a very big aspect and i'll be heavily taking int into account for when im going to undertake the route. Very good idea to have a conversation with a guide instead of taking one out. Never actually thought of that and this advice can actually help me with alot of other projects i have in mind. Will definitely let you know when im done with it.

Better things to do with my time than try to troll a nameless icon with kaiser written next to it on a forum.  

Please refer to the reply above. (Also, people lead busy lives sometimes)

DaveHK restoring my faith in logical reasoning

Might have not enjoyed this comment as much without the accompanying monty python clip which does seem like it may have been made for exactly this reply. That being said i think that your proposed timeline of 5 months may be a tad dramatic. Im giving myself 7 days to complete it, which means plenty of time for 30 m pitches, which ill only be placing on sketchy sections of glacial crossings.

Also, i wonder how many athletes you look up have completed insane undertakings which made them the athletes you look up to. 

Ive seen this before and have considered it but i wouldnt exactly call telescopic ikea curtain rods bomber. And to my knowledge petzle hasnt yet gone into the curtain rod business. My sarcasm isnt pointed at you or your comment but the overall idea in general.

Is it actually legal to send a drone out over the heads of the other parties who’ll definitely be with you on the route? It’ll definitely make you popular, whatever the legal state of affairs is.

60m for 30m pitches

A fantastic comment and i appreciate your insigth alot. Unfortunately the suffer fest is exactly what i'm looking for. I will be very conscious of the conditions and wont try to do anything that is just downright foolish when considering the conditions. Regarding bivvying, as ive done it before for a longer time, i wont be too worried about it and i have good equipment which takes me down to -25 degree comfort, plus extra layering and emergency shelter etc.. im a warm sleeper and i can make snow shelters well so the bovvying aspect im not too concerned about. The cravasses are my major concern, ofcourse avalanche is an ever present danger which i take as an assumption while in snowcovered mountains. My ideology is that if groups that are of varying levels of fitness and virility can take 5 days to complete it and at the other end, athletes can complete it in a sub 24 hour push, i can surely do it in 7 days max (if conditions allow me to complete it at all).

Whatever you do I would test the systems in anger before hand. The first time I did a multiday crossing of a complicated glacier I massively overestimated how much I could travel in a day, digging out campsites, dealing with kit in poor weather, navigating cravasse feilds etc... takes a long time and thats before you start to worry about mucking about with drones and novel rope systems! Especially as with a load of rope, a drone 7+ days worth of food and fuel your bag will weigh a tonne not to mention your allready making it harder on a split board!

So in summary you'll be slow and heavy, not fittest, not the best on skis (you can ski off piste though?), not too sure on rope work or anchors used.... How's your navigation on skis if the cloud comes in? (Which over 7+ days it almost certainly will at some point. 

PS. Bivi-ing is great until you're trapped in it during bad weather, up high and 50cm of fresh snow coming down. 

Only if:

1. You’re still conscious, 2. you’re not so deep in a crevasse that you have no reception, 3. you’re not injured so badly/wedged so tightly that you can neither use your watch arm nor get to your sat phone. 

You realize that your classic attitude of “I’ve got a phone/watch and they’ll come and get me, I’ll be fine”, combined with inexperience, lack of technical knowledge and pride in your high risk threshold is exactly what is killing people (and driving rescue organizations nuts)?
 

Either accept the glacier risk or don't.  Arsing around with self-belays is a non-starter. The chances are there will be a huge track if the weather is any good and you can reasonably argue that if 500+ people have gone that way without falling in, the chances you will are perhaps acceptably small.

good luck ZP. It will be helluva thing to pull off.

John C

As others have pointed out, speed is your friend in avalanche terrain in terms of minimizing the time exposed to threats and avoiding the increased risk sometimes associated with diurnal temperature changes. So your pitching system may make an icy death in a crevasse less likely and other risks more likely. 

Setting aside the collosal, mind numbing, hassle of your system, the additional time in risky terrain it entails would give me the fear. Does it have to be the HR? There are other routes of comparable length with much less or even no glaciated terrain. That sounds like much more fun to me.

Yes, they have and we do. Are you seriously comparing yourself to Alex Honnold or Callum Muskett? There’s a vast difference re experience, fitness, technical knowledge, and the consciousness of and ability to weigh up actual risk against their abilities.

I’m out of this. I’m getting tired of these regularly occurring threads, which always have the same pattern: 1. Poster X: hey, I’ve got a plan, can you give me any helpful advice? Forum: Yes, but your plan is potentially highly dangerous and you should rethink. Poster X: Why are you all being so negative? I’ll be fine.

Good luck to you; you’ll need it.

Please take an Avi transceiver with new batteries to save the rescuers time and personal danger finding you.  I’m not being a smart arse either. Ice climbers here in the Rockies sometimes take them even when accepting the risk, as a social responsibility thing. This is after the extended search it took to find someone on Polar Circus. And when David Llama got avalanched on M-16; it took an avalanche dog attached to their trainer, who was on a helicopter long line, to find them.

Hope you come out safely from whatever you end up doing  

Memorable examples from the past include; walking the Walkers Haute Route in winter and soloing Mont Blanc in winter by walking up the train tracks. The latter actually went ahead and tried it but didn't get far.

Quite often people say 'can you offer any advice on this plan' when what they're actually looking for is others to validate the plan.

There's a fairly standard approach to these things for good reasons and stepping outside those norms carries risks. Experienced people can do that in full knowledge and take other steps to reduce the risks like having plenty of fitness, skill etc in reserve. When those with less experience step outside the norms it can cause problems and that's really the main message of this thread.

I was shit at art at school and I remember trying to pass some piece of garbage off as 'in the style of Picasso'. The art teacher who'd doubtless heard it all before pointed out that artists like Picasso mastered traditional techniques before they stepped outside them.

In short, there ain't no shortcuts.

Great post, hits multiple nails on the head!

All of the points raised in this reply are valid and im considering all of them. I'm really trying to conceptualise ways in which i can bring down my bag weight by replacing equipment and just generally finding the most lightweight way to take everything i may need. I have a long time to trial and work things out so i'm hoping i'll find a way to get my sack weight down. i'll have time to also trial the novel rope system, hopefully taking it from a novek system to a tried and tested system.

I dont know how to ski so i dont see it as making it harder since its not really a choice. I have no experience of skiing hence no reference point. Splitboarding is as ive always experienced it, sufficient to get me where i want to get to, there really isnt anything more to it. 

I think there was a misunderstanding along the way but my fitness is very good. I was saying that it'll be even better by the time i attempt the HR.  "I have not been given the gift of independent leg coordination past ski-touring so i'm going to have to let my splitboard crampons do the bulk of the work" was suggesting that i dont know how to ski. Im a very profficien snowboarder and the bulk of my snowboarding i do off-piste. My nav is fine when the cloud rolls in as it has done many times before and will undoubtedly do so again at some point. 

Slow and heavy is valid and i'm currently in the process of replacing gear and thinking of solutions to that issue. Ive spent a long time in a bivy both in bad weather and good, both suk and i'd rather have a tent but alas its small, light and does the job. If i can i usually dig a snow grave and use my snow saw to cut blocks out and cover the trench which is usually a quick-ish process that usually seems to mitigate snowbuildup for the most part.

Ofcourse 1,2 and 3 are valid concerns, real possibilities and bad places to be where in essence i am for want of a better word: F**ked. 

I genuinelly dont see where youre getting my attitude as being so blase. Ive clearly stated that i understand the gravity of the undertaking and the possible consequences. Having looked at your profile i really dont see why you are so overtly offended by my own ambitions having done what youve done. Many would have the same attitude as you do today, regarding your solo Matterhorn ascent, yet you did it and hold it as one of your most memorable accomplishments within the sport. Would you not have done it had you know what you know now?

My inexperience is purely in regard to the HR itself and im comfortable with the level of my technical knowledge. I also fail to see at which poiint ive shown pride regarding my risk threshold instead of just prefacing my post with important context.

This is a really good point. Im going in season for the HR so there will undoubtedly be a skin-track if the weather isnt attrocious. 

The self-belay i find to still be a viable idea as a contigency.

Thank you John, i'll update the thread when and if i manage it. I'll also update it if i dont manage to pull it off.

To be honest, i do feel like it has to be the HR. However, i am always looking to learn of more routes, so which did you have in mind?

I dont get where youre getting all this from. At no point did i say that anyone was being negative or complained about peoples responses. Im accepting notes, critisism and any advice at all people have given so far nd replied cordially to everyone. You seem to be angry and outraged about a wider issue that you may be coming across yet also participating in it. Is your ideal experience of this thread being: 1. Poster X: hey, I’ve got a plan, can you give me any helpful advice? Forum: Yes, but your plan is potentially highly dangerous and you should rethink. Poster X: Oh okay then, scrap that, i hadnt thought of the danger involved while posting in a climbing forum about doing the HR solo.

No im not comparing myself to Alex Honnold and Callum Muskett, but the first time Alex free-soloed he wasnt THE Alex Honnold, he was just Alex. If he'd posted on this forum, encountered you and decided not to do what he set out to do, he'd remain just Alex.

I appreciate your input at the earlier stages of our interaction before it devolved into what it ended as and i'll take your wishes of good luck. 

I always carry an avalanche trasceiver in BC. Thanks for your advice George.

You may very well be correct that i'm looking for someone to validate my plan subconsciously, but i feel genuine in my intentions of gaining a balanced perspective, advice and critisism to build my plan in consideration to. Ive found myself receiving notes of caution annexed to advice and arguments which have helped me conseptualise my plan further. While there is a standard approach, the standard is just the mean of the distribution while there are standard deviations to either side. Im trying to stay as close to the standard approach as possible whilst having some personal goals in mind. 

The art school analogy was a good one even though it invalidates my position. That being said, im not here to win a debate tournament, im just here to have a discussion and ultimately, learn.

Given you're not exactly ticking any of the obvious prerequisites for a safe solo HR push, why are you even drawn to do it? 

Hi ZP. I don't have the skiing skillset to comment on your plans in any technical way, but I thought I'd weigh in with some thoughts on risk and risk mitigation.

I've come across a few people in mountaineering who have talked about doing some pretty wild things- things way beyond my risk tolerance. Some went on to pull them off, and came back with jaw dropping stories which really highlighted just how close to the edge they were. In the process, they accomplished some truly amazing things.

Your risk tolerance is a personal thing. If you fully understand the risks that you are taking, the probability of things going wrong, and the likely outcomes if things do head south, then you're in a good position to decide whether it's worth it to you. Nobody else can decide that for you. One caveat is to consider whether you could be putting others such as rescuers at unreasonable risk through your actions.

In my experience, the people who did see their visions through typicaly had very high skillsets to match their ambitions, and worked very hard to develop them. It seems as though others in this forum reckon your risk mitigation strategies could be improved- if the trip is really important for you then it should be possible to find time to train and hone your strategies on smaller objectives than the HR. In the process, you may change your mind on your ultimate objective, and there is no shame in that. Or you may decide to crack on with the HR, now with broader experience to lean on.

What you've suggested is something I and many others would consider high risk, and therefore I would be surprised if someone were to jump on the forum and say "great idea". However, I'll say that if you decide to commit, that's your decision and one that I can respect (subject to my comments on risk above) even if I disagree with it. Best of luck- I hope you find what you are searching for.

I think Alex Honnold has always been Alex Honnold, especially to himself. He only became the Alex Honnold to everyone else subsequently. The point is that didn't/doesn't (or at least appears and professes not to) do his extreme solos for anyone else's validation, and so only does them when he knows he can.

The OP's logbook tells you all you need to know.

Mods - please delete the thread as the summer holiday brigade drag the forum down

Sorry, but this is literally nonsense. The standard approach is the range of strategies and procedures that have emerged as safe practice. It's certainly a band not a point but it's not arrived at mathematically.

Are you familiar with the episode of Blackadder where he tries to emulate Sir Walter Raleigh?

The ship's captain makes a joke about nautical opinion being divided on the matter of a crew. The punchline is 'aye, all the other captains say you need one, I say you don't.'

The Albula Alps Traverse.