UKH

I'm a novice MTB rider - I can manage blue trails at Comrie Croft, which are apparently quite hard for blue trails, but struggle with anything harder, both going up and down. I'm currently riding with flat pedals, and on some of the sketchier parts of the trails, I do lose my footing on the pedals, which is a little disconcerting.

I'm used to riding with cleats on my road bike, and I'm now considering clipless pedals for my mountain bike, but I'd like to retain the option of flats as well. I'd welcome recommendations for double-sided pedals with SPD on one side and flat on the other side.

And then I'd need some new shoes ...

And why are clipless pedals called clipless when they clearly involve clips?

I have something similar to these

HOUSON Road Bike Pedals, Cycling Pedal Adapter Compatible with Shimano M520 M540 M780 M8000 M9000 Pedal

When I'm delivering bikeaility courses I need flat shoes, but when I ride for myself I wear SPD shoes.

These will clip-in to one side of the SPD.

Hi,

What shoes were you using on the flat pedals?  Good flat flat pedals combined with decent MTB shoes should glue together quite nicely with little chance of foot slip. 

Personally I would preserve with the flat pedals, maybe lessen tyre pressure and try a firm shoe with good rubber.  For a combined pedal these look good https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shimano-Pedals-PD-EH500-pedals-inches/dp/B07CDQ4K7...

But for beginning at MTB being able to dab your foot quickly is definitely an advantage and flat pedals will make this much easier.

clipless as they don't use 'old style' toe clips.

On an old mountain bike I have a pair of two sided pedals a bit like https://www.rosebikes.fr/rose-duo-x-pedales-pedales-duo-pedales-hybrides-pe...

(mine came from a localbike shop & I can't remember what make they are)

which work with both cleated cyling  & ordinary shoes. Seem a good compromise

edit to add - seem to be a cheaper version of the Shimano pedals recomended above

Salomon trail running shoes with reasonably chunky treads, so possibly not optimum. The pedals are DMR somethings, which were a big improvement on the pedals supplied with the bike.

That's been my thinking so far!

If you stick with clipless, I'd just get normal dual sided SPDs.  It will make it much easier to clip back in when you dab a foot down.  With single sided, you'd have to try and get the pedals the right way round.  I ride XC and have no issue dabbing and reclipping with spds.

If you want flats for harder stuff, just swap over to proper flat pedals.  It's very quick.

"Clipless" pedals are so-called because they don't have the toe "clips" (and straps) that cyclists used to use: youtube.com/watch?v=IxyV0BUeBrg&

I have 2 sets of double-sized pedals:

• Shimano M324. Functional, but heavy and, it turns out, unserviceable (unless you have a very expensive tool for re-tightening the retaining bolts).
• Shimano PD-T8000 (I think). Brilliant and with good grips on the flat side.

Other option might be to look at https://www.powergrips.com/ (other similar systems exist) - you wouldn't need to change shoes, then.

There's quite a few of these available in both plastic and metal, but I've always been pretty sceptical of them. Fine if you're nipping around town in flats (like you do), but if you catch it on a rock, or something, off-road and it pings off, you could come a cropper quite easily.

I use these: https://www.cyclingelectric.com/reviews/magped-enduro2-magnetic-pedals-revi...

More control than flats but not as intimidating and easier to get out of than clipless.

I've been riding with those dual Shimanos that are SPD clipped on one side and flat on the other for a while, they're useful if you're doing long day rides where you get the uphill and flat-terrain advantages that are already familiar to you from road riding with cleats. But I've just switched them out for big flat MTB pedals because I realised I was starting off descent lines faffing about clipping in, and what I really wanted was just a larger, more-stable area to spread my foot over. So I bought some budget / entry-level Sonder (alpkit) flatties which have a dozen spikes on each side of them (~£35) and they're really impressive, I stick to them in a way that feels like I'm clipped in. They need flat soles – think Vans skate trainers or Five Ten's Free Riders or Tennies. 'Flat' wide MTB pedals are actually slightly dished / curvedin profile, and with the spikes it should be possible to stick to em in a variety of foot positions.

(Happy to sell on those the shimano pedals if you want to try riding clipped in, they're in good condition – message me if you're interested).

Many thanks for all the replies - they've all been very helpful. I think for the time being, for the kind of biking I'm likely to be doing, I'm going to stick with the flats I have at the moment but get some 'proper' flat shoes - I can see that Wiggle have a bunch of Five Ten bike shoes going cheap. I'll see how that goes, knowing that there is the option of the dual-sided pedals in the future.

You should feel a definite difference with proper five tennies. The other element is technique - anticipating / soaking up the bike's movements and when things are getting loose, if you drop the heel of your leading foot and raise the trailing one (slightly) you can apply a bit of opposing force between them which helps keep them stuck on.

(Also for reference - Comrie is unusual for a trail centre, apart from that one bikepark style swoopy blue they're all very "natural" feeling trails - mixed surfaces and awkward rock features. If you can learn to ride well there it'll set you up for big mountain riding much better than barrelling round berms and over tabletops!)

I only use flats (personal preference) and have Five Ten mtb shoes. The combo is great in my experience as long as the flats have reasonable grip (good pins) in the first place. All the Five Ten mtb shoes I’ve had have soles which allow the pins to grip exceptionally well.

BTW Worth upgrading the pedals if they are at the cheapest end of the market and not gripping shoes well as the pins may not be the best. I have had cheapo flat pedals on a fat bike and the difference in grip with the same Five Ten shoes was noticeable compared to my better mtb flats. Not a problem for my fat bike riding though for what it was used for.

A point to note decent flat pedals(or combined) will have the 2-3mm studs you Allen key in, flat bottomed shoes will work better on these than your grippy rubber spiked running shoes. 

A word of warning, avoid those cheap 5:10s from Wiggle. I bought a pair and they are shit. The soles are hollow like the crap you get from Sports Direct, and they wear out in no time. I used to be a big fan of 5:10, but now they are Addidas it's all over. Need to find an alternative.

I used one side SPD one side flat shimano pedals for years and years https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Shimano-PD-M324-SPD-Clipless-MTB-Pedals-One-Sided-... the bearings were amazing quality but I basically never used the flat side. On technical terrain its just too much hassle flipping them to clip in, but the flat side wasn't very positive for grip.

On relatively technical terrain I've used SPDs for decades on mountain bikes, but a few years ago bought my first pair of 'proper' flat pedals (Nukeproof, can't remember the model) mainly for winter use when its a world of mud - so I could ride in walking boots. But I started trying them with 5.10 approach shoes and then bought a pair of 5.10 mtb shoes and was very impressed. Starting to ride harder since getting my newer MTB, I've mainly just used the flats so I can jump off more easily when needed! Although, having said that I don't remember ever crashing with SPDs where I thought not being able to release a foot cause problems. As long as you don't crank the SPD pedals up really tight you can normally pull your foot out with minimal twisting, and I suppose it must be 30 years since I got my first pair so I'm just very used to how you get your shoe to release!

I suppose it must be 30 years since I got my first pair so I'm just very used to how you get your shoe to release!

I think this is the key. After a while twisting your foot to get out becomes instinctive, but I do remember the first couple of weeks of using SPD (dual sided). I fell over, a lot. By now the motion has become a habit so I don't even remember the last time I fell over. I think it was on a steepish climb during a bikepack last year where I couldn't maintain momentum - it took me too long to realise that. 

I've tried flat pedals as well but for the terrain I ride I don't really feel they were better, whereas I do really appreciate the positive link between my foot and the pedal that SPD provides. 

I wouldn't want to use the flat/SPD combo though, the USP of SPD is that it's easy to clip in because it's the same for both sides. 

Thanks. I'll try to remember that!

Useful to know. I've only had one try at the red trails at Comrie, and it did seem very different to the blues.

Yes, that's what I've got. It does seem flat-bottomed shoes is te way to go for now.

That's a shame. I was looking 5.10 Freeriders, which seem to get good reviews. Any suggestions for alternatives?

That's the ones I got. I'm guessing the reviews are from older versions, or from people who've only had them a few weeks and haven't realised yet. They are good shoes to ride in, they just don't last very long.

I'm still looking for a reasonably priced alternative. I'm currently using an ancient pair of real 5:10s that I had retired and have now pressed back into service.

That might explain why they're so cheap. I'll have a look for something else.

Scott seem to do some nice shoes. Not bought any yet but they're on my radar

There's pros and cons to flats and clipless but my advice would be choose one and stick with it.

If you go clipless get a good fitting stiff shoe to take full advantage, which will also make unclipping easier.  These don't work well with with flat pedals. If you go for some hybrid type shoe you end up not getting the full benefits of either system.

Although some 5.10s have decreased in quality a bit, they are still the gripiest to go for.

Combined with the best pedals, like a DMR Vault, you will have the best flats-shoe combo out there.

... you will need to be mindful your shins, with aggressive pins though if you get into the gnar; they can cause carnage.  I wear thin shinpads (with knee pads as well).

Another issue may be foot placement and foot angle.  Friend our mine was have real issues with feet staying on etc. We had a play around and she was trying to ride flats on an MTB like she was on clips on her road bike, with foot on pedals towards toe end and heels up toes down. All bad for flats.

Weight on pedals needs to be on balls of feet (some people ride even further back on the feet). Most importantly, heels need to be dropped, so you can push into pedals to get grip. Drop the heels!

Your feet should not be coming off the pedals.

And forget all dual purpose pedals and shoe options; stick with flats-for-fun.

(I rode clips for many years, then swapped about 15 years ago; it was a revelation of fun .. I will never go back; I even ride flats (Vaults) on my X-bike.)

Adidas has owned 5.10 for over a decade now IIRC, so Hooo's shoes must be really old if they are pre- that. I have 5.10 Trailcross LT I bought last year. Besides having the water repellency of a sieve, they are great and stick to my Nukeproof pedals like the proverbial sh!t to a shovel.  

Since Mike Ashley bought them, Wiggle/CRC basically ARE Sports Direct - also owns Evans Cycles.

Why not try Unparallel? It's the usual answer for anyone who wants Five Ten but complains since they're owned by Adidas.

I have the Dust Up and it is plenty grippy. I also prefer the fit to the few pairs of Five Ten that I've tried on. The sole is rigid and not concave like the Freerider too. 

My shoes probably are over 10 years old! I don't think they went to shit the moment Adidas bought them though, it's been a gradual decline. I bought 5:10 climbing shoes about 4 years ago and they are still going strong after a couple of resoles. I've been using Adidas running shoes for a few years, but my last pair fell apart rapidly so it looks like it's only got really bad in the last year or so.

5.10s:  I'm not a fan of them when they are new and rigid. Like the 5.10s when they are well broken in and soft / squidgy.

Prefer to buy the Freerider EPS, as more waterproof (ride these all year round).

Proper flat pedals are ace. I ride these and I would recommend https://www.tredz.co.uk/.DMR-V12-Pedals_71700.htm?sku=223103&msclkid=aa...

They are much much better than any clipless/flat combination pedal.

It's worth getting some decent flat shoes to pair with them. I used to use an old pair of TX4 approach shoes which worked fairly well but now have some five tens which are great.

The SPD/ flat combi may be useful for a bike which you like riding with spds most of the time but also want to pop into town wearing some form of flat shoes.

If you decide you do want to try them I have an old pair of SPD pedals with a clip on plastic piece that converts one side into a flat.

Yours for a tenner including postage.

Second the V12’s, even clogs won’t slip on these. 
Any shoe or trainer will do just be careful of the pedals hitting your shins as they are also known as shin shredders. Also, sealed bearing kits are available for any repairs. 
I was constantly hitting the wrong side with the Shimano double sided and they were not very comfortable with flat soles. I gave them to a local charity bike shop. 

Yep, I went out delivering letters for Labour today around my town. Took my old rigid mountain bike for jumping off and on again, and my old flat/SPD pedals are on it. It's uncomfortable to stand of the SPD clamp in non-spd shoes (I was wearing old 5.10 approach shoes) and while the flat side is perfectly comfy it's a conscious kick to flick it into the right position. So yeah, a pain. Good flat pedals or good spuds are the way to go, half of one half of the other doesn't really work - as I had 13.5 kms, 2.5 hrs, and about two hundred letterboxes snapping at my fingers to reflect on today. :⁠-⁠)